The New Perspective: Kelly Gusmao on Designing Wealth for Women

As part of Interactive Brokers’ ongoing podcast series highlighting women in the financial industry, Kelly Gusmao joins IBKR’s Judith Casasampere to discuss building innovative businesses, empowering female investors and creating opportunities for the next generation of leaders.

Summary – IBKR Podcasts Ep. 394

The following is a summary of a live audio recording and may contain errors in spelling or grammar. Although IBKR has edited for clarity no material changes have been made.

Judith Casasampere

Good afternoon, and welcome to Interactive Brokers podcast focused on women. We are really pleased to welcome today Kelly Gusmao. Such a pleasure to have you here with us today.

Kelly Gusmao

Thank you so much, Judith, for the invitation. It’s such an honor to be here with you today.

Judith Casasampere

Thank you very much. The career starting in Brazil, but then in the US and then back to Brazil. You co-founded Warren. You are actively shaping conversations around women and focusing on women, and it’s a pleasure as well that have having to know you for the last 20 years, I was counting. So I’ve seen you all your career path, and I love everybody also to see how inspirational you are.

Kelly Gusmao

Thank you, Judith. Oh my God, you’re gonna make me blush.

Judith Casasampere

So focusing about women, your career in finance and wealth and leadership obviously, tell us, I mean, entering this finance world in the early stages as a trader and then moving to Warren as a co-founder and now launching Ella Wealth, explain us all your path on this market.

Kelly Gusmao

Right. Well, the interest, right, about women in finance, it happened while I was building Warren, right. We were creating something modern, very innovative, truly exciting, exciting. And yet, when we looked at our client base, women were almost invisible. Not because they didn’t have money, not because they weren’t interested in this topic, but because no one was really speaking to them, not in the way that they deserved, right. So financial market was built by men for men. I mean, and it’s totally fine. It’s the way it is. But we are changing that, right. Because the language, the products, the approach, all of it was designed with a male client perspective in mind, right. And women were expected just to adapt to fit into a model that was never made for us.

So the few who did engage were often treated as they needed to be educated rather than respected. And I mean everyone needs to be educated at some point, right. But I refuse to accept that. I mean, high net worth women in Brazil are so sophisticated, ambitious, and ready to take control of their financial future, so they just need a partner to actually understand their journey, right.

So their goals, their values, the way they think about money, the legacy. And that’s when I knew Ella Wealth, which is a management firm built by women for women, had to exist, right. And not as a pink version of what already existed, but as something entirely new.

Judith Casasampere

It’s a brilliant idea because obviously you are going to prepare now and focus now on all the women that are inheriting wealth, obviously all the women that are professionals that have been saving all their lives and they have other values as you said, and propose them a different investment alternatives suitable for them.

Kelly Gusmao

Exactly, yeah. And money is shifting hands, right. From like the next few years in the US, women will get their hands on more than 30 trillion dollars. So that’s a huge amount, and it’s a huge culture change in society, right.

Judith Casasampere

It is true, it is true. But then focusing your career in the industry, I mean we all know, and probably Brazil even more, I mean you have been experiencing as well being like the minority on a board, right. And being the minority on a team or on any other position.

So what would you let’s say give as ideas to young generations of women to feel sharp, to feel sitting on the right position on a table, and to really be encouraged and have confidence to go to pursue their career in finance and in leadership as well.

Kelly Gusmao

Right, right. Yeah, my advice would be start before you feel ready. This is an advice that I give every time because it’s the truth that took me the longest to internalize to myself, right. Women tend to wait until they have every certification, until they feel absolutely confident, until they are sure they won’t make mistakes, and by then the opportunity has already passed by, right.

So men usually raise their hands first and figure it out later, and I’m not saying that to criticize them, but to invite women to do the same. So we are allowed to learn on the job. We are allowed to not have all the answers, and we are allowed to take risks, right. So invest in our financial education not only professionally but personally. You know it’s very very important. Understand your own investments because financial independence is not a luxury, right. It’s freedom and the ability to make choices on our terms. It’s incredibly important for our lives. And find our community, find women who are a few steps ahead and learn from them.

It’s very important to build a network with intention because this industry, who knows you and who believes you matters enormously, right. And finally, not to get too long here, never let anyone convince you that your perspective is a disadvantage. I mean the way women approach risk, relationships, long-term thinking, empathy, these are not soft skills. I think they are superpowers, right. And this industry is only going to get better once women bring them to the table.

Judith Casasampere

And it’s totally true. And it’s more about, and I love your perspective as well, your always your perspective of being like an entrepreneur. No, we have, I mean you have talked about obviously the vision, but I think that that it’s clear as well. Like you have your goals, you know where you want, what you want to see yourself into, and having the right network, having the right mentors, being next to the people that you know you are going to be learning more, even though it’s challenging, even though maybe it will take longer to learn, but still being there and being focused. So talk to me as well more about your entrepreneurship because you also have been let’s say doing other things, let’s say playing poker. That I’ve, I also spotted you playing poker, and there’s always things that you learn and perspective that you gain on that.

Kelly Gusmao

Right, right, right. I mean I have an adventure soul, right. So I mean I like to try out different things, and poker was one of them. I mean there is a very good benchmark in New York which is called Poker Power. And they did a very nice event in Nasdaq a few years ago, only women playing poker. And I got so inspired by that and I was like I’m gonna do something in Brazil. So I started doing in Brazil as well, and so now we have this poker club for women which is called Ladies Royal Poker Club. And we do like these events in hotels, and we get together with 40, 50 women. And we just, we don’t just play poker but we do networking intentionally and we exchange confidence and do business together. And so it’s much more, it’s beyond poker. It’s about behavior, right. Confidence. It’s about taking risks not only in the play but in life and at work in the business wise. So I mean I like to try different things, and I think this is the kind of entrepreneurship that we have within us so we can really have the courage to build something extraordinary, right, and something different.

Judith Casasampere

And it’s true. And at the end of the day it’s occupying your space, right. Like trying to find the space where you you just think I this is where I wanna fit, this is where. And you’re trying to get there by with your ideas, your entrepreneurship, and always like looking for this as well a career acceleration, right. Because obviously you are the one that drives it. And so I think that women sometimes also we do know what we want but sometimes we are okay okay but we are comfortable here. We don’t need to ask for more money. We don’t need to ask for more returns. We don’t need to ask for anything different but we want something different. We want something more customized. And nowadays I mean especially whenever we get more buying power nowadays we will be able to actually get into that, no. And you as well going back to your role as a people’s officer, right. You have been as well I mean besides being at boards and what you have been a chief people’s officer at Interactive Brokers. We also have a chief people officer. And I think it shapes the culture as well. And you have a lot of values as well there to empower women. So explain us more which are the components that you think that are going to help or people are getting wrong about these type of roles and they need we need to work on around that.

Kelly Gusmao

I mean we really have to have resilience, right. And not the kind of one that you see like motivational posters or LinkedIn inspirational quotes. I mean I’m talking about the kind that gets you out of bed when you are exhausted, right. When you doubt yourself many times, when you are the only woman in the room and everyone looks at you and you feel like you’re gonna shut down but you speak up and you have the courage to be yourself, right. And alongside resilience, the habit that truly transforms a career path is asking for help, right Judith. I mean it’s something very important to learn, and that took me a few years to embrace because women are conditioned to figure everything out alone and you know never show vulnerability and always appear that they have everything together, and I carried that condition for a long time. And the moment that we start building a real network of trust through surrounding ourselves with people who challenged us, right, who supported us, who believed in us, I mean everything shifts. I mean so it’s very simple. I mean you cannot build anything great alone, and the sooner women understand that asking for help is a sign of strength not weakness, I mean the faster they will move forward.

Judith Casasampere

There is one sentence I caught on one of your posts and things that I loved which is like we should be building more collaboration instead of competition as well across women. Because women also between ourselves we also like we like to be queens as well.

Kelly Gusmao

Yeah.

Judith Casasampere

So sometimes these ladies royal there is too many royales there.

Kelly Gusmao

Right.

Judith Casasampere

But sometimes also it comes as well from collaboration, and that is a mindset where only the people that you really know you can really you know come back to you with critics like positive thinking and positive critics. But it’s important as well this collaboration instead of competition because it gives everybody the chance to keep on keep on moving forward. No moving up.

Kelly Gusmao

Exactly. And historically women tend to compete against each other. But nowadays in the modern society the thing is changing. I mean we are collaborating more with each other. Because before we were even fewer of us in the market, right. So the competition was even more. It was stronger. It was fearless. It was more intense. Exactly. And now I mean we are making space for other women, and we are being the inspirational persons for those women, right. And so they look up to us, and then we just take their hand and we say like just come with me, you know. So it’s how it’s working now. So it’s great. It’s been a great development into our relationship and women with women.

Judith Casasampere

I totally agree, I totally agree. And like just to move already to close this our conversation, and I wanted just to take like 15 minutes 20 minutes of all our time to think of you and to get your feedback. But just to close, wrap up the conversation, tell us what would be your message like that you want the young woman to carry with us. Because for instance I learned today that the interns coming to Interactive Brokers for this summer there are more women than previous years. And for the first time it’s like it has been a race. And don’t get me wrong we have a lot of thanks God interns coming and applying, and more women are positioning themselves more to be coming into finance. And that’s, and we are proud about that as well, and I’m personally and the women’s resource group at Interactive Brokers we are all so proud about that. So these messages for these young ladies, young students still coming to our industry what would you tell them.

Kelly Gusmao

Well as I said when we started, right, start before you feel ready. I mean just go with it. I mean throw yourself out there, and don’t think too much about what people are gonna think about you or people will judge anyways, right. And if you are afraid of judgmental people or anything I mean don’t be. Don’t be. Just be yourself. Have the courage to be yourself and go with it, and do what you feel it’s right for you, and really do it fearless, right. And grab it with your both hands the opportunity. Because you know I come from poor family in south of Brazil, I didn’t have much, and I knew since I was a very young woman 25 30 years ago that I wanted to work in finance because I wanted to work where the money was. And I wanted to feel this power and to feel that I belong to the place that I wanted to belong. So just grab it with your both hands. Go for it. Don’t be afraid. And if you are afraid just go afraid anyways.

Judith Casasampere

Really good, really really good. So powerful to listen to you Kelly, and it’s a pleasure to have you here with us, and to start this engagement this motivation for all our women.

Kelly Gusmao

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was such an honor. It’s so good to talk to you my old friend from 20 years ago. I mean we know each other for so long. I mean and it’s a pleasure. It’s always good to see you. It’s again it’s an honor to be invited by you to this podcast to this film video. And I mean thank you so much and a kiss to everyone who is assisting it watching.

Judith Casasampere

Obrigada, Senhora.