{"id":241503,"date":"2026-04-14T11:44:34","date_gmt":"2026-04-14T15:44:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/?p=241503"},"modified":"2026-04-14T13:35:08","modified_gmt":"2026-04-14T17:35:08","slug":"crypto-trends-signal-a-seismic-shift-in-tradfi","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/podcasts\/ibkr-podcasts\/crypto-trends-signal-a-seismic-shift-in-tradfi\/","title":{"rendered":"Crypto Trends Signal a Seismic Shift in TradFi"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&nbsp;seems to be a growing crowd who say, \u2018Crypto is not going away.\u2019 Given that, keeping pace with the ever-evolving,&nbsp;digital financial ecosystem&nbsp;appears&nbsp;key to grasping the seismic structural shift many think the traditional financial system is&nbsp;undergoing. In this episode of IBKR Podcasts, we discuss&nbsp;a series of&nbsp;current&nbsp;trends&nbsp;with crypto leaders&nbsp;Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga&nbsp;and&nbsp;Adrian Fritz&nbsp;of 21Shares&nbsp;\u2013from trading Bitcoin in volatile times, to its role as \u2018digital gold\u2019 amid a projected spike in&nbsp;tokenized real-world assets&nbsp;\u2013&nbsp;to blockchain infrastructure, prediction markets, and much more!&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe title=\"Crypto Trends Signal a Seismic Shift in TradFi\" allowtransparency=\"true\" height=\"150\" width=\"100%\" style=\"border: none; min-width: min(100%, 430px);height:150px;\" scrolling=\"no\" data-name=\"pb-iframe-player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/player-v2\/?i=ysnpw-1a9b353-pb&#038;from=pb6admin&#038;share=1&#038;download=1&#038;rtl=0&#038;fonts=Arial&#038;skin=1b1b1b&#038;font-color=ffffff&#038;logo_link=episode_page&#038;btn-skin=c73a3a\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-summary-ibkr-podcasts-ep-371\">Summary \u2013 IBKR Podcasts Ep. 371<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><em>The following is a summary of a live audio recording and may contain errors in spelling or grammar. Although IBKR has edited for clarity no material changes have been made<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Hello,&nbsp;and welcome to IBKR Podcasts. I&#8217;m&nbsp;Steven&nbsp;Levine,&nbsp;Senior&nbsp;Market Analyst at Interactive Brokers&nbsp;&#8211; your&nbsp;host for today&#8217;s program. We have a lot to talk about on this&nbsp;show&nbsp;-especially&nbsp;in light of&nbsp;the recent geopolitical events and volatility.&nbsp;We&#8217;ll be looking at&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/bitcoin-2\/\">Bitcoin<\/a>&#8216;s role in all of this, along with topics centered around&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/blockchain\/\">blockchain<\/a>&nbsp;infrastructure,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/prediction-market\/\">prediction markets<\/a>,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/tokenization\/\">tokenization<\/a>,&nbsp;and&nbsp;a lot more. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And here with us to fill us in with all their insights into this are&nbsp;Eli\u00e9zer (\u2018Eli\u2019) Ndinga,&nbsp;Global Head of Research,&nbsp;and Adrian Fritz,&nbsp;Chief Investment Strategist&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;both of 21Shares, which has launched several crypto exchange-traded products on various European exchanges,&nbsp;in various currencies,including U.S. dollars, euros, Swiss francs, and many more.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;welcome&nbsp;Eli&nbsp;and Adrian. Good to have you here!&nbsp;Thanks very much for taking the time to do this.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks for having us, Steven. Good to be here.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s great to be here.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-0\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m very excited about this discussion. I mean, there&#8217;s so much happening in this crypto space. It&#8217;s overwhelming to me what&#8217;s happening&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;not just looking at the macro environment in terms of geopolitical risk, but I guess we can start by talking about Bitcoin&#8217;s role in today&#8217;s markets. We&#8217;ll just&nbsp;get&nbsp;going with Bitcoin.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-42.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241504 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-42.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-42-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-42-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-42-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>What&#8217;s happening with geopolitics today and these risks that are in the environment&nbsp;have&nbsp;just been ramping up&nbsp;really significantly&nbsp;in&nbsp;recent days. It keeps escalating, it seems. I mean, we&#8217;ve already hadUkraine-Russia&nbsp;in&nbsp;Eastern Europe, and now we&#8217;ve got this entire calamity across the Middle East,&nbsp;and there&#8217;s all these ongoing trade disputes. I mean, these might just&nbsp;remain with us for some time\u2026all these uncertainties.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;d love to know your thoughts on how you think, say,&nbsp;institutional investors in this environment\u2026how&nbsp;should they think about Bitcoin?&nbsp;It wouldn&#8217;t be entirely be the same as hedging with a traditional&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/safe-haven\/\">safe-haven<\/a>&nbsp;asset, right? It&#8217;s not like actual gold, like physical gold, or,&nbsp;say,&nbsp;the Swiss&nbsp;franc, but&nbsp;it&#8217;s speculative in nature, isn&#8217;t it&nbsp;&#8211; for the most part&nbsp;\u2013Bitcoin?&nbsp;Would investors just simply find value in diversifying with it, or would it then be like some kind of&nbsp;speculative diversifier?&nbsp;I&#8217;d love to know your thoughts on this.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-0\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Absolutely.&nbsp;It&#8217;s a huge debate, obviously, and it always comes back to:&nbsp;\u2018Is Bitcoin truly that classical safe haven asset?\u2019&nbsp;And I think it&#8217;s misinterpreted a lot of times.&nbsp;Of course, Bitcoin is a non-sovereign, scarce, globally transferable,&nbsp;monetary asset. But the behavior a lot of times\u2026it just depends on the type of shock.&nbsp;I think in portfolio construction terms,&nbsp;the case\u2014if we compare it to gold\u2014is&nbsp;also&nbsp;less that Bitcoin replaces gold,&nbsp;and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;more&nbsp;like&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;may just&nbsp;expand the opportunities, because&nbsp;obviously&nbsp;it introduces exposure to a different set of macro and monetary risk factors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\u2019ve seen&nbsp;a couple of&nbsp;times in the past, especially over the&nbsp;short-term, that it\u2019s very sensitive to liquidity. It also trades 24\/7. Therefore, if there\u2019s any geopolitical escalation, especially on the weekend, that\u2019s where the market expresses&nbsp;their&nbsp;feelings.&nbsp;But over the longer horizon, its appeal is tied to scarcity,&nbsp;to&nbsp;neutrality,&nbsp;to&nbsp;censorship resistance\u2026.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But,&nbsp;I think for institutions, the relevant question is not whether Bitcoin is a perfect hedge, but whether a small allocation can improve risk-adjusted returns across different market regimes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-0\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I think for the investors listening to this podcast,&nbsp;what they should understand&#8230;if wetake a step back&nbsp;a little bit&#8230;is that&nbsp;Bitcoin is an emerging store of value. When we compare it with&nbsp;gold, this is an asset that is just 15 years old. It has been traded since 2011, but at the same time, it\u2019s also a technology play.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, it\u2019s a two-phased asset that looks like an equity play because of the technological benefits, while at the same time having characteristics of gold as a scarce asset, with the benefits&nbsp;of&nbsp;also&nbsp;being globally accessible with an internet connection and, most importantly,&nbsp;also&nbsp;being easy to transfer and hold across borders,&nbsp;if people have to flee countries because of war.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\u2019ve seen that, of course,&nbsp;in multiple cases\u2014whether it was Ukraine or Lebanon, or even&nbsp;as&nbsp;recently&nbsp;as&nbsp;in places like Iran, as well as Dubai, for wealth transfers. But&nbsp;I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;really important&nbsp;for investors to understand that this is an asset that can react differently, as Adrian mentioned,&nbsp;in&nbsp;different market shocks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Historically, what we\u2019ve seen is that&nbsp;as&nbsp;the best-performing asset of the last decade&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;doesn\u2019t mean this will be the case for the next one&nbsp;\u2013&nbsp;but, what we\u2019ve seen&nbsp;so far&nbsp;is that&nbsp;Bitcoin has outperformed gold and equities&nbsp;in the U.S,&nbsp;specifically after about a month&nbsp;or so, despite any overshoot we experienced before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Of course, Steven, you could&nbsp;tell us&nbsp;that in 2020 and 2021,&nbsp;everything went up, which is true&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;that\u2019s why we carve out 2020 and 2021 to ensure investors understand&nbsp;that the long-story-short is that Bitcoin has outperformed, because it\u2019s a long-duration asset rather than a short-term trade.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-43.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241505 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-43.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-43-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-43-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-43-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Source: IBKR Trader Workstation<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-1\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. Bitcoin,&nbsp;itself,&nbsp;has always been somewhat interesting&nbsp;to me,&nbsp;because I never&nbsp;really quite&nbsp;understood what&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;was. I know&nbsp;it\u2019s exercised&nbsp;a great deal of volatility since its inception. You had all sorts of&nbsp;different&nbsp;events\u2014there were these&nbsp;liquidity shocks back in, say, 2022,there&nbsp;was a shock&nbsp;when&nbsp;they [the Federal Reserve Bank\u2019s Federal Open Market Committee] raised&nbsp;rates to combat inflation. I think it fell something like 65%.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-44.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241506 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-44.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-44-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-44-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-44-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Source: IBKR Trader Workstation<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There was also COVID, but everything kind of fell during COVID. Then you had&nbsp;this&nbsp;rally when things weren\u2019t going so well in 2023 with the banking crisis&nbsp;of&nbsp;SVB and Signature Bank.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-45.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241507 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-45.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-45-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-45-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-45-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Source: IBKR Trader Workstation<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don\u2019t understand exactly how the performance of Bitcoin works. I understand it\u2019s called \u201cdigital gold,\u201d and I understand that, you mentioned,&nbsp;it has characteristics of gold, but if it displays this kind of extreme volatility,&nbsp;as it does,&nbsp;can you really say it has characteristics of gold?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I guess&nbsp;a&nbsp;big&nbsp;question is:&nbsp;<em>W<\/em><em>hat exactly props up Bitcoin as an asset?<\/em>&nbsp;I know you said it\u2019s a technology play,&nbsp;and&nbsp;it&nbsp;has characteristics of gold, but what if people just lost faith in, say,&nbsp;the entire network&nbsp;that Bitcoin\u2019s&nbsp;on? Would they all leave en&nbsp;masse? Can you just&nbsp;fork&nbsp;Bitcoin\u2019s code and create a \u201cdigital platinum\u201d or&nbsp;a&nbsp;\u201cdigital silver\u201d&nbsp;or something like that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s not&nbsp;fundamentally&nbsp;the same as physical gold, so I\u2019m&nbsp;just&nbsp;wondering how you&nbsp;can&nbsp;justify&nbsp;tying&nbsp;the characteristics of gold to the nature of Bitcoin\u2019s performance and&nbsp;volatility?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-1\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s a great question. Let me respond to that, and then, Adrian, you can add to this. This is a question, by the way,&nbsp;that&nbsp;Adrian and I\u2014we&nbsp;at 21Shares, running&nbsp;this&nbsp;$8 billion asset manager\u2014get all the time. And even for me, personally, over the last 11 years in this space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bitcoin, more specifically, has characteristics of gold when you look at the features that the monetary asset has. This asset has about 21 million&nbsp;Bitcoins that will ever exist in the world. We are about 7 billion people on Earth, and there are only 21 million bitcoins that will ever exist.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can also see that every four years there is a programmatic mechanism that&nbsp;decreases&nbsp;the inflation rate of Bitcoin&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/halving-event\/\">by half<\/a>, which means&nbsp;that&nbsp;there will be&nbsp;less&nbsp;Bitcoins created every single day&nbsp;up untilthe next 100 years. Today, there are about 20 million&nbsp;Bitcoins in existence. You might think that in the next year or so we\u2019ll reach 21 million, but&nbsp;actually not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The fact is,&nbsp;for&nbsp;the next 100 years, with this monetary policy, Bitcoin\u2019s going to&nbsp;reach 21 million. That\u2019s&nbsp;actually the&nbsp;reason why 21Shares is called&nbsp;\u201821Shares\u2019\u2014because&nbsp;it\u2019s a reference to the 21 million&nbsp;Bitcoins.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the long-story-short, specifically in response to your question:&nbsp;Bitcoin is a scarce asset, because of its limited supply, which is very similar to gold.&nbsp;But&nbsp;this supply is verifiable 24\/7 in a very transparent way, thanks to the blockchain technology, itself,&nbsp;that underpins Bitcoin.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, we have a monetary policy that is&nbsp;basically&nbsp;very similar to gold, with a 21 million limit, and&nbsp;thenalso&nbsp;the&nbsp;transparency\u2014for you, Steven, and your audience\u2014to check on any website where&nbsp;thetransactions are&nbsp;going&nbsp;and how many coins&nbsp;can&nbsp;exist today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The beauty of Bitcoin is that this is not an asset you can forge. If you, Steven, hold Bitcoin, I cannot replicate that same Bitcoin for myself, then create&nbsp;the same&nbsp;one for Adrian and another friend,&nbsp;and another friend, et cetera. What you own is verifiable. It\u2019s math-based,&nbsp;that&nbsp;no one can&nbsp;actually&nbsp;replicate it&nbsp;and try to&nbsp;steal it from you\u2014unless, of course, you\u2019re&nbsp;sharing&nbsp;your&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/private-key\/\">PIN code<\/a>, which is&nbsp;the&nbsp;equivalent&nbsp;of your&nbsp;secret to hold your&nbsp;own&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;in a safe, if&nbsp;you&nbsp;want to&nbsp;have&nbsp;an analogy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, it\u2019s very important to understand that&nbsp;the performance of&nbsp;Bitcoin,&nbsp;is to some extent,&nbsp;in the short-run, acting&nbsp;like a tech play, but in the long-run, it\u2019s&nbsp;actually&nbsp;acting&nbsp;like gold. We\u2019ve seen that several times. And of course, gold has been used for thousands of years&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;just&nbsp;about 15 years&nbsp;or so -when looking&nbsp;at trading activity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But we&nbsp;do&nbsp;believe that&nbsp;with the characteristics of the&nbsp;hard-asset and limited supply, Bitcoin is&nbsp;verysimilar to gold&nbsp;rather&nbsp;than&nbsp;similar&nbsp;to&nbsp;the&nbsp;[U.S.]&nbsp;dollar, or&nbsp;similar&nbsp;to&nbsp;an Apple stock, or an NVIDIA stock.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-2\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I get it. The store-of-value&nbsp;and the&nbsp;scarcity&nbsp;part of it&nbsp;make a lot of sense to me. I guess,&nbsp;to&nbsp;my mind, the only thing you really can\u2019t do is melt it down or&nbsp;make&nbsp;it into jewelry. So, there are some downsides there,&nbsp;unfortunately\u2014but&nbsp;I think&nbsp;maybe one day, who knows?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-2\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Sure,&nbsp;there is some downside. But the other thing you&nbsp;also&nbsp;asked, Steven,&nbsp;is,&nbsp;I think,a very important question&nbsp;is the value of Bitcoin. Many investors\u2014and Adrian&nbsp;is&nbsp;smiling right now&nbsp;for&nbsp;those who won\u2019t be watching this episode\u2014but many investors are&nbsp;asking: how do we value Bitcoin? Is there intrinsic value&nbsp;for&nbsp;Bitcoin?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Adrian, you can respond to that. How do we think about intrinsic valuation for Bitcoin, especially when we look at the&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/bitcoin-mining\/\">mining<\/a>&nbsp;cost of production, which is very similar to gold? Adrian, can you walk us through how we think about that at 21Shares?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-1\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, there are a lot of valuation frameworks&nbsp;that&nbsp;you could&nbsp;apply to&nbsp;give you&nbsp;some sense, but it\u2019s obviously quite challenging\u2014just like it is with gold\u2014because it doesn\u2019t generate any yield.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, if we take a close look at&nbsp;the valuation of&nbsp;gold, where does&nbsp;it&nbsp;come from?&nbsp;And,&nbsp;I thinkSteven you already alluded to&nbsp;it\u2014it\u2019s&nbsp;maybe&nbsp;two&nbsp;pieces.&nbsp;Number one, it&nbsp;is&nbsp;being&nbsp;used as an industrial metal; it&nbsp;has&nbsp;a&nbsp;physical use case&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;but that doesn\u2019t&nbsp;make up&nbsp;a $30\u201335 trillion market cap. A big chunk of that valuation comes from the belief that it&nbsp;really&nbsp;acts as&nbsp;that&nbsp;store of value, which it has proven over&nbsp;many&nbsp;hundreds of years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For Bitcoin, it\u2019s very similar. Bitcoin has a monetary premium,&nbsp;because it is scarce, and that scarcity gives it value,&nbsp;and&nbsp;also&nbsp;the belief that it can act as a store of value in the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, the other piece for Bitcoin\u2014and that\u2019s&nbsp;where the tech play comes in\u2014it is&nbsp;a global monetary system, which&nbsp;is completely decentralized. It\u2019s neutral, and it allows&nbsp;us to send value&nbsp;across the globe with no central control.&nbsp;And especially in a time&nbsp;with a lot of&nbsp;geopolitical changes \u2013 with a lot of&nbsp;debasement&nbsp;that is going to infinity, that&nbsp;is&nbsp;definitely a&nbsp;value proposition&nbsp;that&nbsp;is becoming&nbsp;more and more&nbsp;relevant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-3\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I find this incredibly fascinating, especially since there are events that are, I believe,are intentionally made&nbsp;by governments and others&nbsp;not to&nbsp;disrupt markets.&nbsp;So, they\u2019ll&nbsp;do them&nbsp;outside of market&nbsp;times\u2014on weekends\u2014so&nbsp;that&nbsp;they don\u2019t interfere with&nbsp;the&nbsp;normal&nbsp;activity of&nbsp;daily&nbsp;markets.Sometimes that&#8217;s impossible to do, I suppose. But I think when you have that kind of choice or control, you would prefer to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-46.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241508 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-46.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-46-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-46-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-46-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Even earnings&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;before the&nbsp;open, after the&nbsp;close. But now as blockchain is a 24\/7 infrastructure, there is no \u2018before the open or after the closed\u2019. It&#8217;s all just operating 24\/7, isn&#8217;t it?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yes, I understand, things can happen on the&nbsp;weekends&nbsp;and you might&nbsp;not&nbsp;know, say, the price of a certain commodity, or other real-world- or off-chain asset, especially&nbsp;during these geopolitical conflicts. I mean, events can escalate, de-escalate,&nbsp;on&nbsp;weekends, or other times when the markets otherwise closed.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"260\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-47.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241509 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-47.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-47-700x201.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-47-300x86.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-47-768x221.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/260;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Source: Los Angeles Times &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Source: IBKR Trader Workstation<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What would you say are some examples of how this looks, maybe just a different topic altogether\u2026. but you did mention earlier, Adrian, the 24\/7 nature of blockchains. And, so, I&#8217;m just picking up on that, and I&#8217;m thinking about tokenized assets, for example. How would you say tokenized assets or, say, tokenized commodities \u2026 What are the benefits of having them be 24\/7 when these things are happening? Say, on the weekends and the&nbsp;market\u2019s&nbsp;closed? I mean, is there some kind of like price discovery, as a benefit, to this or\u2026.? I don&#8217;t know. I don&#8217;t even know if there&#8217;s&nbsp;really significanttrading volume happening, with tokenized [RWAs].<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What get into the volumes of those [tokenized RWAs] a bit later. But I know that commodities are a part of what is growing. And, so, I&#8217;d love to know what the benefits are of being able to trade tokenized assets, tokenized commodities, on a weekend when, say, geopolitical events are escalating.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-2\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, there\u2019s a lot to unpack in this question, Steven.&nbsp;And, as you mentioned, traditional finance still operates with opening hours, with batch settlement, and with market closure gaps. And obviously blockchain&nbsp;allows to&nbsp;trade 24\/7 and during weekends or during political events. I believe Bitcoin and crypto markets often provide some sort of early price signal before traditional venues&nbsp;actually reopen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think it matters. Even if the volumes are smaller, I think the informational function can still be meaningful. And we see there&#8217;s&nbsp;more and more.&nbsp;There&#8217;s&nbsp;some other examples where we see on-chain derivatives, or futures, that are being traded via the blockchain that are even being referenced as kind of like gauging the price during the weekend in traditional media as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, we are already seeing like a slow shift where traditional financial players&nbsp;looking&nbsp;at crypto markets just to see and get that&nbsp;informational&nbsp;inside in what could be happening until Monday opening.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-4\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I have a lot of questions about tokenization, and we\u2019re going to get into that in just a minute,&nbsp;because I\u2019ve been seeing all sorts of projections about tokenized assets&nbsp;just&nbsp;growing exponentially, it sems,&nbsp;through&nbsp;the next, I don\u2019t know, five years or so.&nbsp;But I&#8217;d like to talk about that. It seems like there are very select asset classes that are dominating that volume right now.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But, if we&#8217;re talking about geopolitics, and we&#8217;re talking about what&#8217;s been really,&nbsp;really prevalent&nbsp;in markets, especially in these kinds of volatile times, I think we&nbsp;have to&nbsp;talk about prediction markets. That&#8217;s a huge topic today, it seems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-48.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241510 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-48.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-48-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-48-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-48-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t know if people recognize that prediction markets are \u2026 you know \u2026 the newer markets, anyway, are&nbsp;actually blockchain-powered. I didn&#8217;t know that before this. And so, I think it&#8217;s&nbsp;a really interesting&nbsp;thing. I mean, Polymarket\u2019s processed what, like billions, I think, right? I mean, just around the last presidential election cycle that we had in 2024.&nbsp;They continue to be&nbsp;really activearound geopolitical events, right? I mean, they&#8217;re providing even more accurate, maybe,&nbsp;some think real-time probability assessments than what we refer to today as traditional polling.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Everything&#8217;s&nbsp;\u2018traditional\u2019&nbsp;now, you know, compared to&nbsp;\u2018digital\u2019.&nbsp;At IBKR, we&nbsp;have&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/forecasttrader.interactivebrokers.com\/en\/home.php\">ForecastTrader<\/a>&nbsp;\u2013 that\u2019s a CFTC regulated prediction market platform.&nbsp;But in the digital asset world&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;in the blockchain-based permissionless markets\u2026.&nbsp;I&#8217;ve seen this term a lot. I want to ask what that is.&nbsp;Does that just mean&nbsp;it&#8217;s not regulated by any government authority&nbsp;&#8211; that&nbsp;it&#8217;s&nbsp;called a&nbsp;\u2018permissionless market\u2019?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-49.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241511 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-49.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-49-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-49-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-49-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-3\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This is a phenomenal question, and there are&nbsp;two layers&nbsp;If you want to understand the technology of prediction markets and what they offer for users like you and I and institutions.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, the first one is that prediction markets are technology based. And they&#8217;re not built by proprietary databases by a single entity, they&#8217;re built on public networks, like, for&nbsp;example,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/ethereum\/\">Ethereum<\/a>&nbsp;\u2026or&nbsp;any of the networks that looks at this. So, for investors, essentially&nbsp;Ethereum is a platform that allows entrepreneurs to build applications like we know today, whether it&#8217;s Zoom, Slack, WhatsApp, PayPal on your phone can use it and leverage it for different use cases.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But instead of having Apple or Samsung controlling it, you&#8217;re able to build it in a decentralized way and not have&nbsp;a 20% tax on the product that you&#8217;re building. So,&nbsp;that&#8217;s&nbsp;one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;prediction&nbsp;markets&nbsp;are&nbsp;physically&nbsp;built on&nbsp;public&nbsp;networks,&nbsp;and the technology is to some extent decentralized. However, when it comes to the distribution, the distribution&nbsp;has to&nbsp;be regulated by local authorities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s why you&#8217;ve seen prediction marketplaces like, for example,&nbsp;Polymarket&nbsp;that people know&nbsp;really well,&nbsp;and&nbsp;another&nbsp;called&nbsp;Kalshi.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;to respond to your question specifically, when we talk about&nbsp;traditional prediction markets andpermissionless&nbsp;markets, it&#8217;s not about the fact that one of them is regulated and the other is not,because&nbsp;both of them&nbsp;are&nbsp;actually complying&nbsp;with local jurisdictions when it comes to distribution in local jurisdictions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s incredibly important. So,&nbsp;this is&nbsp;a&nbsp;fascinating technology&nbsp;to me,&nbsp;that, of course, has been around for a while&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;people have been using&nbsp;pollings&nbsp;and betting on sports, et&nbsp;cetera., but not in a decentralized way,&nbsp;where people have an internet connection to be able to even help people to better understand the world order that we know today&nbsp;that is changing back and forth with&nbsp;geopolitical conflicts.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the good thing is, people like our mothers and even grandmothers,&nbsp;are able to&nbsp;use and&nbsp;actually follow&nbsp;the news without realizing on their phone that&nbsp;this&nbsp;is a blockchain-powered application. And&nbsp;that&#8217;s the whole point of it. That&#8217;s why you, Steven, you&#8217;re incredibly impressed that\u2026and you didn&#8217;t know that&nbsp;actually&nbsp;Polymarket&nbsp;was built on a blockchain.&nbsp;And you don&#8217;t even need to know.&nbsp;You don&#8217;t even&nbsp;need to know that we&#8217;re using TCP IP to make this&nbsp;conversation&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;and that&nbsp;Adrian&nbsp;and I are in Europe and you&#8217;re&nbsp;in the&nbsp;U.S. to have a conversation. What&nbsp;matters&nbsp;is&nbsp;how this&nbsp;podcast really helps your audience to get from 0 to 1, and 1 to 10,&nbsp;in the crypto space, and this is what&nbsp;we&#8217;re here for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-5\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I guess the question here is: can you really replicate what&#8217;s happening, say, with blockchain-based prediction markets with, say, traditional infrastructure? I mean, we have ForecastTrader here&nbsp;at IBKR, so there are these differences between a regulated, traditional approach like&nbsp;ForecastEx [Forecast] contracts&nbsp;on IBKR&nbsp;ForecastTrader, versus,&nbsp;say,&nbsp;blockchain-based permissionless markets, as we&#8217;ve been talking. But, I would think that with&nbsp;the&nbsp;regulated markets, you have,&nbsp;maybe,&nbsp;some greater legal certainty,&nbsp;Maybe there&#8217;s more legal protection for participants?&nbsp;it sounds like there&#8217;s room for maybe both of these models to coexist, but, you know, I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts on whether there&#8217;s really is more of a benefit for, say, the blockchain-powered solution, or whether there&#8217;s more of a benefit to regulated approaches.&nbsp;And what are the risks?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-3\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, I think you already said it.&nbsp;I think it might be a combination of both. I do think some of those traditional infrastructures &#8211; they can replicate some of the economic functions, but usually it comes with&nbsp;a more&nbsp;centralized onboarding, maybe with more compliance constraints, maybe product approval processes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, those traditional platforms, obviously they&#8217;re optimized for legal certainty&nbsp;first, while&nbsp;thoseblockchain platforms&nbsp;are&nbsp;optimized for openness and for speed. So,&nbsp;one is compliance first. The other one is more&nbsp;innovation&nbsp;first. But I think in the&nbsp;long-term&nbsp;it&#8217;s&nbsp;neither-nor.&nbsp;I think it&#8217;s a convergence of both models. I think it&nbsp;will&nbsp;just&nbsp;merge together&nbsp;and get the best of both worlds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-6\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, I\u2019d like to think that there\u2019s&nbsp;not&nbsp;going to be&nbsp;such&nbsp;a loss of dimension,&nbsp;becausewe&#8217;re losing the third dimension in a sense&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;of&nbsp;traditional&nbsp;finance.&nbsp;But that&nbsp;there will be these layers of dimensions within the digital world. And I think that there already are, you know, if I really look at it in terms of&nbsp;all the different mechanisms and operations happening within the ecosystem. It has a sort of three dimensionality to it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-50.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241512 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-50.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-50-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-50-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-50-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>And given&nbsp;that,&nbsp;I know we were going to talk about&nbsp;tokenized,&nbsp;real-world assets&nbsp;and&nbsp;the volumeprojections,&nbsp;I think&nbsp;we should&nbsp;actually&nbsp;start&nbsp;to really talk about that. And I know there&#8217;s been some activity\u2026I know in your outlook,&nbsp;in your&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.21shares.com\/en-eu\/insights\/state-of-crypto-16-market-outlook-2026\">State of&nbsp;Crypto for 2026<\/a>, there was mentioning of&nbsp;NRSROS,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;the&nbsp;Nationally&nbsp;Recognized&nbsp;Statistical&nbsp;Ratings&nbsp;Organizations,&nbsp;like Moody&#8217;s and S&amp;P and Fitch, on how they might well be assigning investment-grade ratings to digital vaults.&nbsp;I mean, I&#8217;d love to talk about that, too. And maybe that&#8217;s a part of this discussion about projections,&nbsp;in general.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If we&#8217;re going to,&nbsp;say,&nbsp;bring all real-world assets that are off-chain, on-chain, we&#8217;re looking at something like $400 trillion worth of assets. And it seems like some of these are already well under way&nbsp;in&nbsp;being tokenized. You&#8217;ve got maybe&nbsp;$200&nbsp;billion&nbsp;to&nbsp;$300 billion, I think,&nbsp;right now&nbsp;if&nbsp;I&#8217;m&nbsp;not&nbsp;wrong about that. There&#8217;s a small amount&nbsp;in&nbsp;comparison to what the opportunity is to tokenize, but I see mainly private credit. I see U.S.&nbsp;Treasuries. I know there are some funds out there like BlackRock&#8217;s&nbsp;BUIDL&nbsp;and Franklin Templeton. They tokenized money market funds.&nbsp;[There are also tokenized]&nbsp;commodities,&nbsp;and,&nbsp;to a lesser extent, stocks.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-51.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241513 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-51.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-51-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-51-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-51-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Source: RWA.xyz<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the sheer volumes of tokenized real-world assets,&nbsp;in general, it seems, are set to&nbsp;spike, I&#8217;m reading that could&nbsp;reach,&nbsp;anywhere&nbsp;between $4 trillion&nbsp;to&nbsp;$16 trillion by 2030.&nbsp;Is that right?&nbsp;What are what are 21Shares\u2019&nbsp;projections on this? And what&#8217;s behind these&nbsp;massive growth estimates? We&#8217;re talking about, what, like 5 to 10 times growth from the current&nbsp;$200 billion&nbsp;to&nbsp;$300 billion&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;to&nbsp;$1&nbsp;trillion&nbsp;to&nbsp;$2 trillion by the end of this year?&nbsp;Am I right in saying all of this?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-4\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>No. You&#8217;re right. Absolutely.&nbsp;I do think that it\u2019s good to step&nbsp;back for your audience,and to echo what Adrian&nbsp;said when it comes to the blockchain benefits;&nbsp;it&#8217;s mainly operational,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;on the&nbsp;back-end, invisible to you.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;helping institutions to&nbsp;actually issue&nbsp;assets at&nbsp;the&nbsp;cheaper cost, and at a faster rate for transactions for goods.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, for example, concretely, if I want to send you one dollar,&nbsp;it&nbsp;would&nbsp;cost&nbsp;a few cents. But most importantly, it would basically be sent like a WhatsApp message or other iMessage, you know, using WhatsApp. And mostly&nbsp;in America people use WhatsApp. So,&nbsp;I would send an iMessage, and&nbsp;within a few seconds,&nbsp;actually milliseconds,&nbsp;you&#8217;re able to receive&nbsp;it, and you don&#8217;t have to wait for, you know, market opens, or market closes to be able to&nbsp;make that transaction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So&nbsp;it&#8217;s&nbsp;really about&nbsp;operational efficiency. And what we&#8217;ve seen is that the best product market fit beyond Bitcoin as a long duration and emerging store of value&nbsp;\u2026&nbsp;we&#8217;ve seen that medium of exchange&nbsp;of&nbsp;dollars across the world. So,&nbsp;sending out dollars for&nbsp;payments,&nbsp;and&nbsp;transfers,&nbsp;and trading has been the best performing use case I&#8217;ve seen&nbsp;in the&nbsp;cryptocurrency&nbsp;space&nbsp;&#8211; and that&#8217;s the concept called&nbsp;\u2018stablecoins\u2019. Basically.&nbsp;100% backed dollars in the bank account,&nbsp;where if you have a crypto wallet across the world, you&#8217;re able to send a&nbsp;dollar, essentially like an&nbsp;iMessage, which is really something that we&#8217;ve never really seen before with the decentralized infrastructure.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;that&#8217;s why for us, beyond dollars,&nbsp;beyond fiat&nbsp;currencies, we&#8217;ve seen the emergence of&nbsp;government bonds&nbsp;and also&nbsp;Treasuries, as well as&nbsp;private equity completely built on these decentralized blockchain, but distributed in regulated venues, where basically, you know, regulated securities&nbsp;have to&nbsp;be distributed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s why most of the distributors of these tokenized assets really&nbsp;have to&nbsp;comply with the SEC or the CFTC, depending on the treatment of the underlying asset. So,&nbsp;really, this is the beauty of the operational efficiency that we&#8217;ve seen, and we&#8217;ve seen&nbsp;an&nbsp;unprecedented&nbsp;growth&nbsp;from institutions and banks and even central banks and little-known regulators to take the tokenization&nbsp;really seriously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s why you\u2019ve seen regulatory clarity in the U.S. &#8211; first with stablecoins, because that&#8217;s the first use case that people mostly used with the GENIUS Act. And then the CLARITY&nbsp;Act &#8211; that is pending &#8211; to make sure that investors can treat tokens, whether&nbsp;they&#8217;re&nbsp;equities or commodities or currencies, in a way that would be under the purview of either the SEC for equities or the CFTC for commodities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, that distinction has been pending. And that&#8217;s why we are heading towards regulatory&nbsp;unification. And that unification and harmony is going to really help spur innovation, as we&#8217;ve seen with the&nbsp;Internet.&nbsp;In the early 2000s, Steven,&nbsp;the&nbsp;three of us&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;Adrian&nbsp;and yourself&nbsp;and myself&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;we&nbsp;were&nbsp;actually worried&nbsp;to use&nbsp;credit cards to make payments for flight&nbsp;ticket.&nbsp;Today, it\u2019s second nature.&nbsp;Even not using our&nbsp;PIN&nbsp;code to make payments&nbsp;at the grocery store and just using, you know,&nbsp;the \u2018tap\u2019&nbsp;is something that&nbsp;felt&nbsp;really worrying 17 years ago.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;I do think that&nbsp;CLARITY&nbsp;is going to help protect consumers and spur innovation to a level that we haven&#8217;t seen before, especially for now, under&nbsp;this current [U.S. President Trump] Administration. And that&#8217;s why we believe that tokenized assets can really reach a higher level than we&nbsp;actually haveexperienced&nbsp;so far.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And to give you a number,&nbsp;stablecoins&nbsp;&#8211; on&nbsp;fiat currencies on the blockchain&nbsp;\u2013&nbsp;so,&nbsp;in&nbsp;dollars represent U.S.&nbsp;$300 billion in total assets, which is really an impressive amount,&nbsp;and we&#8217;re expecting to reach&nbsp;$1 trillion&nbsp;dollars.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-4\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Steven, when it comes to tokenization&nbsp;on my end, I have a strong opinion\u2014and&nbsp;it\u2019sthat tokenization is&nbsp;actually very&nbsp;boring. It\u2019s very, very&nbsp;boring.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-7\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Really?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-5\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>And the future of crypto and blockchain is&nbsp;quite boring, in my&nbsp;opinion, because what does it really mean? I mean, everything that is being built here is financial infrastructure. So, eventually it will all blend into the&nbsp;background&nbsp;and we all will be using it&nbsp;on a daily basis, but we won&#8217;t be noticing it. So that is&nbsp;pretty boring, actually. But it&#8217;s also very disruptive and necessary.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we&#8217;ve seen a lot of efforts around the globe with Nasdaq and Kraken, one wanting to tokenize, assets and equities &#8211; The New York Stock Exchange &#8211; and \u2018tokenization\u2019 is just a fancy term.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You might remember the days when we got digital cameras.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-8\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-6\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>And it was a big deal. We called it&nbsp;\u2018digital\u2019&nbsp;cameras. No one says&nbsp;\u2018digital\u2019&nbsp;cameras anymore. Now,&nbsp;we call them analog&nbsp;\u2018cameras\u2019,&nbsp;because every camera&#8217;s digital. It&#8217;s the same with tokenization. I mean, in the long future, when we trade assets, all of them will be tokenized, but we will just drop the word&nbsp;\u2018tokenized\u2019. And I think that&#8217;s&nbsp;really how&nbsp;the future&#8217;s going to look like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-9\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s happening very quickly, it seems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-10\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I do remember digital cameras, and I was a little upset about the introduction of the digital camera, because I was&nbsp;very,&nbsp;adamant about the film camera, about loading my film. I liked that. You know, I loved the idea that I only had 24 to 36 pictures, and now they were allowing somebody to shoot just as many as they wanted, it seems. And it was trying to do everything it could possibly do to replicate what could already be done.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that, to me, is how I first thought about the entire digital [financial] ecosystem &#8211; that it&#8217;s trying to do something for the financial system that has already been done and works&nbsp;really well. But now I&#8217;m starting to see that there aren&#8217;t all sorts of benefits to this, as I look further into how the infrastructure is being built.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, I know Eli, you mentioned CLARITY in the U.S., and I know that there are other regulations that are going on, globally. There&#8217;s MiCA [Markets in Crypto-Assets], I guess you call it, in the EU. The UK has got their own \u2026 Singapore, I suppose, and Hong Kong. I&#8217;m sure there are others that are developing their own regulations, in a sense, to help clarify&nbsp;trading&nbsp;these tokenized assets. And,&nbsp;so, it&nbsp;seems like there is a concerted effort of a more global type of system that can maybe more easily be transacted within.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/stablecoin\/\">Stablecoins<\/a>&nbsp;are allowing all sorts of&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/lib\/cstools\/faq\/\">transactions<\/a>&nbsp;to take place that would otherwise be cumbersome&nbsp;in the&nbsp;traditional markets like,&nbsp;I guess,&nbsp;cross-border financing, for example. So,&nbsp;I get very excited&nbsp;about the prospects that can come from the digital&nbsp;[financial]&nbsp;ecosystem, whereas at first,&nbsp;I was very skeptical about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do like digital cameras now, but I still use a film camera, so,&nbsp;I&#8217;d like to know that there&#8217;s still a place for me to go that is&nbsp;off-chain,&nbsp;if I needed to. And do you think that at some point that&#8217;s&nbsp;just all&nbsp;going to go away?&nbsp;Or become a part of a distant nostalgia?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-resized\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-52.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241514 lazyload\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;aspect-ratio:1.7795515364030636;width:904px;height:auto\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-52.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-52-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-52-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-52-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-7\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s a very good question, actually\u2014almost a philosophical one.&nbsp;And&nbsp;I don\u2019t&nbsp;knowto be&nbsp;really&nbsp;honest.&nbsp;I think it will take a while. I think we&#8217;ve seen the same with ETFs being introduced &#8211; that kind of made mutual funds much more liquid, much more transparent, much more exchange-traded, as the name implies. And I think tokenization is just the next evolution of that, where you have programmability and 24\/7 trading.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I would say with all innovations, it&#8217;s almost a curse and blessing. I would say a lot of people in traditional finance would say it&#8217;s quite nice that markets are closed on a weekend, because it&#8217;s stressful. And now we&#8217;re moving to 24\/7 markets, so that&#8217;s going to change a lot. It&#8217;s going to change a lot how firms and institutions operate, because they\u2019ve got to cover markets 24\/7.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m also curious how it&#8217;s going to look like in regards to liquidity, because usually in&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/traditional-finance-tradfi\/\">TradFi<\/a>,&nbsp;liquidity is around the opening and the closing, while&nbsp;when it&#8217;s open 24\/7, will we also see a bit of clustering?Will&nbsp;it consolidate during certain market hours? Or will it just kind of dilute?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;there&#8217;s a lot of open questions,&nbsp;and I think it&#8217;s going to take a while until this world establishesitself. But I&#8217;m curious how it&#8217;s going to look like, and where we&nbsp;are&nbsp;going to spend our time&nbsp;off-chain?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-5\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s&nbsp;really important&nbsp;to also add the fact that we are seeing the rise of AI, and the agents, that could replicate what humans and traders could be doing in the future. Not yet, but to a large extent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;I do think that there will be a convergence between blockchain infrastructure that is invisible, and what AI agents&nbsp;really help&nbsp;to trade 24\/7,&nbsp;and being able to overload the market for&nbsp;institutions&nbsp;and trading desks. And this is already&nbsp;happening to a large extent. But this is,&nbsp;I think, the same evolution as high frequency trading,&nbsp;but&nbsp;it&nbsp;would be on the blockchain powered by AI agents.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And because most importantly, AI agents are not going to open a bank account&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;traditional bank account or a brokerage account&nbsp;&#8211; it would be mainly humans&nbsp;\u2013&nbsp;so,&nbsp;the use of&nbsp;functions&nbsp;by AI agents is going to be significant. And that&#8217;s why,&nbsp;I think,&nbsp;to Adrian&#8217;s point, how this is going to look like?&nbsp;We don&#8217;t know.&nbsp;But I think we have a good sample today to understand that there would be a convergence between, especially blockchain technology and AI in this&nbsp;24\/7&nbsp;environment that we don&#8217;t know today, which means that most likely humans are going to touch more grass,&nbsp;and get the CIA briefing everyone to understand markets.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-11\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We\u2019re going to be pushing a lot of buttons, I think.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-53.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241515 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-53.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-53-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-53-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-53-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-12\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So, let&#8217;s go back to these NRSROs like Moody&#8217;s, S&amp;P, and Fitch. Now that we&#8217;re talking a lot about the tokenization of things&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;more specifically, and I don&#8217;t understand how this works, and I know you mentioned&nbsp;it&nbsp;in your in your state of crypto outlook for 2026&nbsp;&#8211; we&#8217;re talking about, say, pension funds or insurance companies that need to adhere to certain ratings requirementslike investment-grade ratings for corporate bonds, I suppose.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;if the ratings agencies assign, say, an investment-grade rating to a digital vault, how exactly does that work? And&nbsp;I would&nbsp;think that if they could, it would prompt&nbsp;more activity of tokenizing, say, corporate bonds to put in digital vaults&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;or other investment-grade-rated&nbsp;assets that could be tokenized.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But how does that work, exactly? I mean, is this only for credit products?&nbsp;Because,&nbsp;they&#8217;re&nbsp;assigning a credit rating, right? So,&nbsp;are they just credit products?&nbsp;Does that same vault house other tokenized assets like real estate alongside these high-grade credit products? Less-than-[investment-grade] credit-quality&nbsp;products?&nbsp;I don&#8217;t understand how this works.&nbsp;Do investors have separate vaults for separate assets?&nbsp;Or is it&nbsp;like&nbsp;a single vault for&nbsp;the investment-grade credit products&nbsp;only? And that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re talking about&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;the opportunity&nbsp;[for these off-chain assets]&nbsp;to get tokenized,&nbsp;because we&#8217;ll have these&nbsp;[investment-grade credit]&nbsp;ratings. And then investors like pension funds and insurance companies can take full advantage of that type of mechanism for their portfolio.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-6\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, perfect.&nbsp;So, essentially a vault,&nbsp;or a computer program,&nbsp;that allows&nbsp;you to do lending and borrowing at a certain rate,&nbsp;space,&nbsp;and credit ratings, and they do that for specific assets and based on investors\u2019&nbsp;risk profiles.&nbsp;And this is something that is&nbsp;really interesting&nbsp;but cannot be done,&nbsp;to your point, without the equivalent of the Moody&#8217;s of the world that would really allow institutions to feel comfortable.&nbsp;That\u2019s the first step. And then the second step is to allow institutions to come in.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What is&nbsp;really important&nbsp;to highlight is that&nbsp;AML and KYC&nbsp;is&nbsp;also incredibly important.&nbsp;Anyone can open&nbsp;a,&nbsp;crypto wallet and then trade&nbsp;against each other. But for&nbsp;the&nbsp;institutions, they have compliance mandates. And this is, of course,&nbsp;a non-negotiable. And that&#8217;s why&nbsp;these&nbsp;transparency,&nbsp;and KYC,&nbsp;layer&nbsp;is&nbsp;incredibly important for the investors to feel comfortable to allow, then,&nbsp;the BlackRock&#8217;s of the world to come in and be able to trade against one another.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve seen so&nbsp;far, actually.&nbsp;We&#8217;ve seen that the&nbsp;Apollo\u2019s&nbsp;of the world, the BlackRock&#8217;s of the world,&nbsp;actually coming in and allowing their tokenized products&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;or investing directly in these lending marketplaces, whether&nbsp;Aave&nbsp;or&nbsp;Morpho,&nbsp;which are lending marketplaces in the crypto space,or even&nbsp;spot&nbsp;marketplaces that can&nbsp;do&nbsp;swap,&nbsp;as well,&nbsp;to give you names for the audience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Of course, what we discuss today is not financial advice, but what is interesting is that we&#8217;re seeing these watershed moments of the early innings of credit ratings that really allow investors, to really feel comfortable and be able to have familiar formats when it comes to compliance with ratings, as well as&nbsp;\u2018KYT\u2019, which is basically the equivalent of KYC on the blockchain; it&nbsp;means&nbsp;\u2018Know&nbsp;Your&nbsp;Transactions\u2019.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-13\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I think we\u2019ve covered quite a lot. I know you&#8217;re a bit bored by tokenization&nbsp;and&nbsp;infrastructure, Adrian, but let&#8217;s hear from both of you &#8211; what each of you are most excited about seeing in the next 1 to 2 years.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you see any progress with mainstream adoption?&nbsp;What are your thoughts on all this?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-8\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I think we clearly see some more institutional adoption. I think our job is slowly becoming slightly easier. What I mean by that &#8211; compared to kind of previous bear markets, where almost&nbsp;none&nbsp;the traditional investors even wanted to take the meeting with us, now those conversations have changed completely. Now they truly want to understand and get that educational insight to make sure they handle this new asset class correctly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And once again, it&#8217;s going to impact them &#8211; if they want or not &#8211; either from an investment point of view \u2013 so, if they ever decide to make an allocation into this asset class or from the technological point of view, meaning in regards to stablecoins, tokenization, everything that we just mentioned, it will need some sort of change, if they want or not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think they&#8217;re starting to understand that, and that&#8217;s why they truly understand what&#8217;s going on.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-14\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So, they&#8217;re coming with some interest as opposed to selling them on the idea.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-9\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-15\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s great. Eli, what do you think? What do you think about Bitcoin, too, because we started with Bitcoin. Where do you think it&#8217;s going to fit now that the tokenized asset ecosystem is growing? I mean, is it still going to be like this \u2018digital gold\u2019 or\u2026?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-eliezer-ndinga-7\"><strong>Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, we&nbsp;definitely do&nbsp;not provide financial advice. But, jokes aside, I truly believe that \u2026 it&#8217;s interesting, because I had the same question last week from a very large institutional client that we discussed with, and they were asking the questions around,&nbsp;\u2018Well, we got tokenized gold now on multiple blockchains, what about&nbsp;\u2018digital gold\u2019&nbsp;that we call&nbsp;\u2018Bitcoin\u2019?\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I do think that, fundamentally,&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;will&nbsp;always&nbsp;be&nbsp;complimentary to gold&nbsp;in a diversified portfolio. And we&#8217;ve seen that over the past eight years. And we had&nbsp;in&nbsp;the first&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;allocation research that we published in 2019 at 21Shares,&nbsp;where we saw the benefit of Bitcoin with a declining volatility over time,&nbsp;despite the fact that&nbsp;this is more the go-to asset compared to NVIDIA&nbsp;or an Apple stock.&nbsp;But we&#8217;re seeing a declining volatility over time.&nbsp;With,&nbsp;of course,&nbsp;a&nbsp;small allocation,&nbsp;we&#8217;ve seen benefits in the diversified portfolio. But rebalancing is key for the indexers.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;I do think that for the disciplined&nbsp;investors with a&nbsp;long time&nbsp;horizon, they are going to&nbsp;actually seethe benefits of Bitcoin over time. And that&#8217;s one way to look at&nbsp;Bitcoin&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;as a hard asset.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then when it comes to the system itself, which is a tech play,&nbsp;there&nbsp;will be a premium to it,because Bitcoin is also&nbsp;similar to&nbsp;Swift. But Swift is controlled by&nbsp;a&nbsp;company, but Bitcoin&nbsp;is&nbsp;not controlled by any&nbsp;organization. So,&nbsp;in a world where we become more fragmented, we have more volatility and more geopolitical conflicts, international and censorship resistant monetary system around Bitcoin is going to be more in demand over time.&nbsp;And we&#8217;ve seen that in several places around the world,&nbsp;where there is even China that&nbsp;actually banned&nbsp;Bitcoin a few years ago. But even in places like Lebanon and Ukraine, when people fled the country&nbsp;to leave the war. So,&nbsp;we&nbsp;definitely see&nbsp;that Bitcoin&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;in a geopolitical, conflictual environment&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;is beneficial for many people around the world and not just institutional investors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then the second&nbsp;thing is&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;when it comes to what I&#8217;m excited about&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;is the early innings of the adoption of blockchain technology beyond trading. And I&#8217;ve seen that when my very own mother has been&nbsp;actually seeing&nbsp;the news,&nbsp;and&nbsp;Polymarket&nbsp;around the U.S.&nbsp;elections,&nbsp;and understanding what&#8217;s going on in Iran, without&nbsp;actually spending&nbsp;more time on CNN or CNBC, which, of course, I really respect these two channels.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What I&#8217;m saying is that we&#8217;re seeing a complementary, media outlet in prediction markets where people follow the news, without&nbsp;actually understanding&nbsp;that this is based on any blockchains. They just see the information being incredibly useful to them&nbsp;on&nbsp;what it means for the future. And I do think that this is where blockchain is going to be, as Adrian mentioned, a&nbsp;back-end,&nbsp;or boring technology to some extent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But&nbsp;the user applications, the consumer&nbsp;applications,&nbsp;that we know today are also going to become blockchain-based. And that&#8217;s why,&nbsp;Steven, if&nbsp;I asked you in the early 90s if you would be comfortable to take a car with a stranger, you would say,&nbsp;\u2018no\u2019, but today, you would do it, because of increased&nbsp;trust&nbsp;built around it, because there is trusted regulation,&nbsp;and there is user experience that is incredibly exciting and simple for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I do think that this is where we&#8217;re headed for consumer applications&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;blockchain-based. Andthat&#8217;s why people&nbsp;have to&nbsp;watch this space. And I think&nbsp;Polymarket&nbsp;and even&nbsp;Hyperliquid, which is the futures exchange,&nbsp;really allows that to remove the complexity that of course people are experiencing today,&nbsp;or even Adrian&nbsp;and I from the&nbsp;last ten years&nbsp;in&nbsp;this&nbsp;space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-16\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s crazy how quickly things change\u2014and&nbsp;how much&nbsp;behavior changes&nbsp;as a result ofthe innovations. It\u2019s so true. Even hailing a taxi in New York City was something of a risk that people were reluctant to take. It was a common behavior, but it was always, you know, \u2018Are we going to be taken for a ride?&nbsp;And to where? Hopefully, our destination.\u2019 And hopefully we will go to our destination, or at least the one that we imagine is going to be this digital [financial] ecosystem&nbsp;at the end of the day.&nbsp;I think it&#8217;s developing in such fast ways.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But this was really,&nbsp;really terrific. Eli, Adrian, thank you so much, again, for taking the time to do this! Is there anything else that you&#8217;d like to say before we sign off?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-adrian-fritz-10\"><strong>Adrian Fritz<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I would always&nbsp;say, \u2018start small and start learning\u2019, because this is not a trade. It&#8217;s&nbsp;truly a structural shift that is happening. And even if you don&#8217;t believe in crypto, I think you truly need to understand what you&#8217;re opting out of. And,&nbsp;so,&nbsp;that&#8217;s my message.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-steven-levine-17\"><strong>Steven Levine<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>As a&nbsp;friend of mine says,&nbsp;you&nbsp;may not agree with,&nbsp;or be interested,&nbsp;or even have any kind of real direction in terms of your investment strategy, but it&#8217;s not going away. And I just keep hearing that, and I just keep thinking it&#8217;s true.&nbsp;And since it&#8217;s not going away,&nbsp;and there&#8217;s so many developments happening in so many different spaces&nbsp;&#8211;&nbsp;regulatory and institutional and otherwise,&nbsp;it&nbsp;almost feels like an inevitability, but I&nbsp;guess&nbsp;time will tell.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But,&nbsp;anyway, I hope you&#8217;ll both be back with us. It&#8217;s an&nbsp;ever-evolving space and&nbsp;the depth of information that you&#8217;ve given us is amazing. And,&nbsp;so,&nbsp;thank you so much for that!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"904\" height=\"508\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-54.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-241516 lazyload\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-54.png 904w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-54-700x393.png 700w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-54-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/ibkrcampus.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/image-54-768x432.png 768w\" data-sizes=\"(max-width: 904px) 100vw, 904px\" src=\"data:image\/svg+xml;base64,PHN2ZyB3aWR0aD0iMSIgaGVpZ2h0PSIxIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy53My5vcmcvMjAwMC9zdmciPjwvc3ZnPg==\" style=\"--smush-placeholder-width: 904px; aspect-ratio: 904\/508;\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>For our listeners, you can learn more about 21Shares at 21shares.com.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can also read more commentary and market analysis, including on crypto markets, at IBKR Traders\u2019 Insight. There\u2019s a lot of content there. You\u2019ll also find more information about Interactive Brokers\u2019 crypto offerings on ibkr.com.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And for a full list of financial education resources, visit IBKR Campus,&nbsp;where\u2014as always\u2014all educational material is provided to the public at no cost.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And until next time, I\u2019m Steven Levine with Interactive Brokers.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks for joining us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>LEARN MORE<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.21shares.com\/en-us\">21Shares<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.21shares.com\/en-eu\/insights\/state-of-crypto-16-market-outlook-2026\">21Shares State of Crypto #16: Market Outlook 2026<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.21shares.com\/en-eu\/insights\/state-of-crypto-16-market-outlook-2026\">RWA.xyz<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/\">IBKR Campus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-ibkr-com\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/\"><strong>IBKR.com<\/strong><\/a><strong><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/ndcdyn.interactivebrokers.com\/Universal\/Application?ft=T&amp;spltst=www\">Open an IBKR Account \/ Start a Free Trial<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/lib\/cstools\/faq\/#\/content\/1331500535\">How to deposit via Stablecoin<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/en\/trading\/products-cryptocurrencies.php\">Trade Crypto for Less Coin<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/en\/general\/communiques\/2025\/2025-vol27.php#section-crypto-new-tokens-drop\">Recurring Investments<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/forecasttrader.interactivebrokers.com\/en\/home.php\">IBKR ForecastTrader<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-ibkr-traders-academy\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/traders-academy\/finance-courses\/\"><strong>IBKR Traders\u2019 Academy<\/strong><\/a><strong><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/trading-course\/getting-started-with-cryptocurrency\/\">Getting Started with Cryptocurrency<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/trading-course\/getting-started-at-ibkr\/\">Getting Started at IBKR<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-ibkr-podcasts\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ibkr.com\/campus\/podcasts\"><strong>IBKR Podcasts<\/strong><\/a><strong><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/podcasts\/ibkr-podcasts\/combating-crypto-skepticism\/\">Combating Crypto Skepticism (WisdomTree, Dec 8, 2025)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/podcasts\/ibkr-podcasts\/the-genius-of-stablecoins\/\">The GENIUS of Stablecoins (Abra, Dec 1, 2025)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-ibkr-glossary\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/traders-glossary\/ibkr-traders-glossary\/\"><strong>IBKR Glossary<\/strong><\/a><strong><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/bitcoin-2\/\">Bitcoin (BTC)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/blockchain\/\">Blockchain<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/stablecoin\/\">Stablecoin<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/real-world-asset-rwa\/\">Real-World Asset (RWA)<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/glossary-terms\/tokenization\/\">Tokenization<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ibkr.com\/campus\/webinars\">IBKR Webinars<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ibkr.com\/campus\/news\">IBKR Traders\u2019 Insight<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ibkr.com\/campus\/quant\">IBKR Quant<\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ibkr.com\/campus\/stl\">IBKR Student Trading Lab Info<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There\u00a0seems to be a growing crowd who say, \u2018Crypto is not going away.\u2019 Given that, keeping pace with the ever-evolving,\u00a0digital financial ecosystem\u00a0appears\u00a0key to grasping the seismic structural shift many think the traditional financial system is\u00a0undergoing. In this episode of IBKR Podcasts, we discuss\u00a0a series of\u00a0current\u00a0trends\u00a0with crypto leaders\u00a0Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga\u00a0and\u00a0Adrian Fritz\u00a0of 21Shares\u00a0\u2013from trading Bitcoin in volatile times, to its role as \u2018digital gold\u2019 amid a projected spike in\u00a0tokenizedreal-world assets\u00a0\u2013\u00a0to blockchain infrastructure, prediction markets, and much more!\u00a0<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":241519,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":true,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10842,13857],"tags":[410,21127,21375,8495,21373,21377,21380,19113,21374,12035,21367,21371,9888,8439,4479,21368,20895,20612,21379,21378,21372,4769,20610,19455,21370,21369,11877,8228,20859,21376],"contributors-categories":[18562,13576],"class_list":{"0":"post-241503","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-ibkr-podcasts","8":"category-podcasts","9":"tag-bitcoin","10":"tag-bitcoin-volatility","11":"tag-blockchain-infrastructure","12":"tag-blockchain-technology","13":"tag-crypto-adoption","14":"tag-crypto-future","15":"tag-crypto-investing-strategy","16":"tag-crypto-markets","17":"tag-crypto-portfolio-diversification","18":"tag-crypto-regulation","19":"tag-crypto-trends","20":"tag-cryptocurrency-investing","21":"tag-decentralized-finance","22":"tag-defi","23":"tag-digital-assets","24":"tag-digital-gold","25":"tag-ethereum-blockchain","26":"tag-financial-innovation","27":"tag-fintech-trends","28":"tag-global-finance","29":"tag-institutional-crypto","30":"tag-monetary-system","31":"tag-polymarket","32":"tag-prediction-markets","33":"tag-real-world-assets","34":"tag-rwa-crypto","35":"tag-stablecoins","36":"tag-tokenization","37":"tag-tokenized-assets","38":"tag-tradfi-vs-crypto","39":"contributors-categories-21-shares","40":"contributors-categories-interactive-brokers"},"pp_statuses_selecting_workflow":false,"pp_workflow_action":"current","pp_status_selection":"publish","acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v26.9 (Yoast SEO v27.4) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Crypto Trends Signal a Seismic Shift in TradFi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/241503\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Crypto Trends Signal a Seismic Shift in TradFi | IBKR Campus US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"There\u00a0seems to be a growing crowd who say, \u2018Crypto is not going away.\u2019 Given that, keeping pace with the ever-evolving,\u00a0digital financial ecosystem\u00a0appears\u00a0key to grasping the seismic structural shift many think the traditional financial system is\u00a0undergoing. In this episode of IBKR Podcasts, we discuss\u00a0a series of\u00a0current\u00a0trends\u00a0with crypto leaders\u00a0Eli\u00e9zer Ndinga\u00a0and\u00a0Adrian Fritz\u00a0of 21Shares\u00a0\u2013from trading Bitcoin in volatile times, to its role as \u2018digital gold\u2019 amid a projected spike in\u00a0tokenizedreal-world assets\u00a0\u2013\u00a0to blockchain infrastructure, prediction markets, and much more!\u00a0\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/podcasts\/ibkr-podcasts\/crypto-trends-signal-a-seismic-shift-in-tradfi\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"IBKR Campus US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2026-04-14T15:44:34+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-04-14T17:35:08+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.interactivebrokers.com\/campus\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/pod20230323twentyoneshares_coverimage-1.jpg\" 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